Interview: Puppet Cell

Interview: April 2025

A week before the release of their second album, Throwing Knives In The Dark – review here, Hotel Hobbies spent some time with four of the five members of Puppet Cell: Paul Owen (guitar), Andy Deans (guitar), Rob Sutton (bass) and Paul Wray (drums).

Hotel Hobbies: Thinking about the new album, Throwing Knives In The Dark, what does that represent to the band and how does it tie the record together thematically?

Andy Deans: It was a current sentiment of the time of choosing a title. I was somewhat stressed at work and it seemed to fit.

Hotel Hobbies: This album is more experimental and varied than Freaks and Heathens. Was that a conscious shift or something that just evolved as you were creating the album?

Paul Wray: I think you have answered with the second part of your question there. It was just something that kind of kind of evolved really. I don't think we ever set out to create something that sounds a certain way. Paul usually writes most of the stuff to start with and then it becomes an amalgamation. Paul usually has an idea of how things are going to sound in his own head and then I'll put some drums on it and then it takes a different direction from that point onwards. We never really quite know how anything is going to sound so it is kind of experimental in that respect.

Paul Owen: Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. I start with a riff. For example, on Burning, I wrote the opening riffs for that up to middle eight and at the time Paul, Andy and I would meet every couple of weeks for a little bit of a jam in a local rehearsal space and play around with ideas. So that one evolved a little bit that way. Other things, like what turned out to be F.I.N.E., I had an opening riff and the opening chord sequence sat in my brain for quite a while. Then in terms of finding another part to join on, the chorus section came to me and I thought it fitted well. We carry on until everyone adds to ideas and you never really quite know what you've got until all the bits are together. Then it is a question of sonically sculpting them together so they sound consistent.

Rob Sutton: I remember the riff for F.I.N.E. being played to me some time ago and it just seemed like it was a riff that had nowhere to live. I like the way it happened and how it became part of a song. I think the flow of it works well and I can’t put my finger on why it works because on paper; it doesn’t feel like it should.

Hotel Hobbies: You released These Pills more than a year ago. Was that because it was ready to go and you wanted something out there? Did any of the songs that came next become the creative anchor for the rest of the album?

Rob Sutton: I think These Pills represented the first song that was written with all five of us having input from early on and that helped us grow the current line-up into a band. It was an important catalyst so it deserved to be included on the album. It’s a slightly different mix. It was special because it wasn’t Ryan (Puppet Cell vocalist) adding lyrics to something that we've written and it wasn't us adding music to something that Ryan had written. That kind of helped with everything else that came after. It might not necessarily have formed it, but it certainly gave us a direction.

Paul Wray: It’s strange because Ryan only really joined the band to help us out of a fix. We’d got all these songs, which obviously then became Freaks and Heathens and Ryan thought it was a great idea. That was kind of during the lockdown period so we all kind of had loads of time on our hands. I think that Ryan was kind of twiddling his thumbs at home and saw our advert for a singer thought it would be a really cool idea if he helped us finish off an album that we were struggling to finish. After Freaks and Heathens was released, Ryan wanted to write more songs. We'd all got on really well so it seemed natural to write together again.

Paul Owen: From my recollection, I added a riff on the group chat, I asked if it was worth pursuing and Ryan was like fuck yes! The other guys were positive too and at a rehearsal, we turned it into an actual song. Then shortly after the gig we played, Ryan had a second child due and we suspected it was all going to go quiet. Then six weeks after the gig, he dropped another song on us which was Hotel Death’s Door just recorded on his phone with him and an acoustic guitar.

Rob Sutton: Which was absolutely mental, because he said I've got an idea for a song… bosh! I wondered how I was going to unpackage it!

Paul Wray: That's very true.

Paul Owen: Because it (Hotel Death’s Door) was obviously recorded without a metronome and just on a phone on the table, I put an idea over the top without re-recording anything. I just added what became the heavy rhythm guitars. It was one recording so I couldn’t separate the acoustic from the vocal for mixing purposes. Ryan has a much nicer acoustic guitar than I do (laughing) so it would have been great if that could have been re-recorded but I ended up rerecording the acoustic part. Then, I think Paul added drums and I then redid my rhythm guitars because I needed to adjust some of the timing. I also added the piano and Ryan suggested orchestration to which Paul gave a flat no! (laughing)

Paul Wray: I had a good reason for that!

Paul Owen: It was a long gestation and took a lot of time to get all the constituent parts together. Then Andy put a blinding solo on it!

Andy Deans: I didn’t like it for a while and it took me some time to warm to it and come up with my parts.

Hotel Hobbies: Paul Wray, thinking about the running order of Freaks and Heathens, you said it was sort of progression: despair through to hope in the last couple of songs. With this new album, was there a particular way you came up with the running order this time?

Paul Owen: Once I was getting close to completing the mixes, I’d put them in a playlist on my phone and was just shuffling around different orders. We all thought early on that These Pills would be the first track. I originally had Hotel Death’s Door as track three: the obligatory third sort of lullaby / ballad type thing. Then, everyone said it should be the last track because it feels like a good ending.

Rob Sutton: It’s a terrible ending (laughing) but that’s very much the sentiment of the song!

Paul Wray: It's the sentiment of the whole album. The whole album is death followed by death, followed by more death and some more death. There’s no happy ending. I think there is a finality to the whole album.

Rob Sutton: These Pills deals with aspects of mental illness and feelings of mortality. Fairly heavy topics. The whole album is laden with emotions of despair and there is an honesty to what we are making.

Andy Deans: To me, the running order was a result of my playlist and how I was working on my parts. It was pretty much how it ended up. It was very organic.

Paul Owen: I think the running order for the rest of the tracks came about from shuffling around and thinking what sounded best after another track. Apart from the first two tracks which are both relatively loud, it goes loud, soft, loud, soft alternately pretty much to the end of the album.

Hotel Hobbies: Lyrically, there is some brutal honesty throughout the album. It is quite stark but in an amazing way.

Rob Sutton: Thank you. I don’t want to put words into Ryan’s mouth when he is not here but I don’t think he is capable being anything other than honest in his lyrics. He's never, ever been able to not convey what's in his head. I think there a couple of songs that he sang in the past that he wasn’t able to feel the same way about because he mentally wasn’t in the same place. He couldn’t find the key back into them again. He would have felt a sense of disconnect from them, which would then feel like a lie. I am staggered by his words. He is just a really, really clever guy for finding the right was to say things.

Paul Wray: He is poetic in what he says. Possibly part of the reason that the band will not continue is that without Ryan, trying to replace somebody with that vocal ability and also the lyrical acumen is impossible, in my in my head anyway. Completely irreplaceable. Sure, we could get another good vocalist, but could we find someone as lyrically adept?

Paul Owen: He's got a really intelligent musical brain as well. The last two songs of the album came as fully formed songs from him. Obviously, he's got some similar influences that we have in terms of all the grunge stuff but he’s a great musician and a great wordsmith.

Andy Deans: I am not sure any of us fancy the dip in form that would inevitably follow if we tried to replace him.

Hotel Hobbies: You mentioned Hotel Death’s Door and in a completely darker way, some of the lyrics remind me of the early Springsteen lyrics and his ability to convey a story.

Paul Wray:  Yes, it's very, very storytelling isn’t it?

Rob Sutton: That’s the secret of making a connection with an audience. If you can’t, you might as well be singing bubble-gum pop. If you’re not making sense to someone or you’re not touching someone, what’s the point?

Hotel Hobbies: Alongside the detail in the lyrics, there are some interesting details in the music. For example, at the start of Brilliant Black, there is a musical box tinkling and then merging into the guitar. How do you decide on those embellishments? Are they a combination of different people’s ideas?

Paul Wray: That was Paul’s idea.

Paul Owen: I know Andy was reluctant to add any guitars to that song because he thought it was good as it was.

Andy Deans: It did sound really nice as it was with the musical box. It sounds even better now because Paul was right but I was very careful that nothing got trampled on because that can be a worry sometimes. It had nice texture and I didn’t want to lose any of that. I love that song.

Hotel Hobbies: You are not a band who is together all the time. How often have you have the chance to play together or has it been more the case of sending bits to each other?

Rob Sutton: I think we fell into working by wire because of the lockdown. We are not a million miles away from each other but we have our own lives so it is not always possible to be together.

Hotel Hobbies: Thinking further about a connection with your audience, when you put so much of yourself into an album, how does it feel to get feedback about your music that shows that connection has been made?

Rob Sutton: I personally think it's wonderful. As a musician, it is all I've ever wanted. I've had people actually quote our lyrics back to us.

Andy Deans: That’s boss level. It’s a huge win.

Rob Sutton: Hearing that someone has found something in the music that has helped them or spoken to them in some way is like you’ve struck gold. Each time it means something to someone, it makes it all worth it.

Paul Wray: I have a student that most weeks starts his drum lesson by playing me Wake Kill Repeat (Hotel Hobbies: a song from Puppet Cell’s debut album). It is his favourite song ever. I guess if you put your blood, sweat and tears into something and somebody enjoys it, whether its one person or fifty people, it’s a buzz.

Paul Owen: I've been writing music in some form or another since school, but never actually got to be in a band where I can actually write the music. Obviously when you start playing guitar you learn some Metallica and everything else you can get your hands on, like bits of Satriani or Vai and anything Kings X. I was lucky joining this band because it was a proper outlet. We are a metal / grunge band but it’s still quite a wide gamut of styles thrown into the mix. It’s immense fun hearing our music on the radio.

Hotel Hobbies: Has anyone ever commented on their interpretation or feeling a song you have done that surprised or moved you?

Paul Wray: I cannot think of that happening but to spin it round the other way, when Ryan first joined, we gave him the choice of two tracks to add to. An hour later, he sent back something he recorded in his studio at home and what he did floored me.

Hotel Hobbies: To ask some more individual questions, Paul - there is an emotional pacing throughout the record that ranges from restraint to release. How did you approach the drums as part of the storytelling tool?

Paul Wray: It is very much what you said there. The drums are mostly restrained and there’s a reason for that. As I alluded to earlier, Paul writes something and then I add drums to it. I don’t really change the drums after that because it becomes difficult to add a fill. It's very difficult to build a drum part all the way through a song when you don't know what else is necessarily going to be added on to it because of the unique way – maybe not unique these days – we have collaborated. I compared the drumming on this one to the drumming on Freaks and Heathens and I said to the others that the first album is more Keith Moon. I was quite explosive. This one is more Charlie Watts where I just laid back and actually played more.

Hotel Hobbies: Rob, your bass provides an emotional undercurrent to the album. How much do you try to link to what Paul is doing on drums?

Paul Wray: I am just going to say before Rob jumps in that his bass playing on this album is stunning but don’t tell him I said so! (laughing)

Rob Sutton: There were a few occasions where I purposely played much the same as Paul, trying to just play for the song. I didn’t try to be too clever but I've always been a fan of writing a bass melody. Sometimes, it becomes starker when you drop into the same groove as the guitars. If you can build off it and provide counter melody, you’re in a fairly safe space. I didn’t want to get too flowery when Ryan was laying down his storylines.

Hotel Hobbies:  Andy and Paul, how do you make sure you work well as a guitar duo without getting on top of each other and making sure you give each other room to do your own thing?

Andy Deans: It's interesting because it was a bit easier than the first album. And it’s quite funny because I don’t think I have ever said this out loud in front of Paul before but there were times where I would get the song and think what the bloody hell do you think I am supposed to do with this? (laughing). Sometimes, the song would be quite frenetic and the riffing would be complicated. But this really did focus my attention and made me come up with something that really worked. Sometimes, Paul and I have actually sat in a room and worked on some songs together, so that has been a different approach. I had a lot more time to formulate ideas on this album. It was more mature in approach and there were times I wanted to express particular emotions. I look for the spaces and considered whether I should hold back or go for it. I send the others the stuff and if it is not good, it gets reworked. I get guidance from everyone.

Paul Wray: There is a hell of a lot of talk between us going back and forth.

Paul Owen: I think one of the outstanding bits of Andy’s work on this is Hotel Death’s Door. I added the piano part when Andy was horrifically busy at work and I knew he wouldn’t be able to add to the song for quite a while. I had to adjust some of the timing on it as the song developed but Andy crafted a blinding solo that doesn’t obscure the piano. I still love the first album but I think these songs are better served by the instrumentation. The mix is part of the atmosphere but for something like this where the lyrics are so important and the singer is so bloody good, you don't want to ruin any of it. I think it's a more mature production in terms of serving the lyrics, the song and the vocals.

Andy Dean: I think collectively we are more emotionally articulate.

Paul Wray: On the song Brilliant Black, I wrote so many different things for it. I wanted to do something completely different. I had been listening to a Linkin Park album and I thought, you know what, there's stuff in this which is just flicking my switch right now, which made me record the electronic drum part to the segment we now call the drum and bass section.

Andy Deans: I was in a hotel room listening to the Red Hot Chilli Peppers and got inspired. I think it was not trying to stick to what we have done before.

Hotel Hobbies: Paul, as the producer and guitarist on the album, you have a double lens to look through. Were there any moments where the producer in you had to push back the guitarist?

Paul Owen: No, I don’t think so. There are a couple of points where I got to the point that maybe the rhythm guitars were too quiet and they needed to be more in your face. Fairly late in the day, I added two more guitars to the final chorus so that probably has about eight or ten guitars on it! It needed a little bit more umph to lift it. Stuff does get cut back because it’s all about getting the balance right. With this, where the vocal is so important, there were bits where Andy was very good in not wanting to play over the top. I find it quite difficult to mix emotionally. I tend to mix analytically more than emotionally. But I can analyse the emotional content if that makes sense and know if something doesn’t need to be there or to think 'that needs to be up, that needs to be somewhere else.'

Hotel Hobbies: The album has a compact running time of thirty one minutes. Is that partly about not making the album too long or about keeping the quality high? Much as I love Freaks and Heathens, I think this is a step up.

Andy Deans: It’s a case of a Bugs Bunny cartoon: That’s all folks! It is the sum total of the remaining work that we are able to put out with Ryan’s involvement. I think if we’d try to add anything else, it would have stretched certain things so I was a kind of quality control.

Rob Sutton: There was also an artistic choice because we realised the emotional weight was too much. It would bend people's minds if it was longer. I still feel the best albums fit on one side of a C90. We didn’t want any filler for the sake of an arbitrary number.

Paul Owen: I agree. I hate albums with obvious filler tracks.

Hotel Hobbies: So my last question is a sad one really. You’ve alluded to the fact that you probably won’t do anything as Puppet Cell again. Looking back on the journey of the band, what has it meant you personally? If it is possible to sum that up.

Paul Wray: It has meant everything actually.

Andy Deans: Belonging, isn’t it?

Paul Wray: It is. There is some sadness. Even though it probably is finishing, I am going to say we’re going on a very extended hiatus because who knows what's going to happen in the future? I don’t think any one of us want to say it’s done. But it is highly doubtful that we will be back together. It's going to leave a kind of void.

Andy Deans: It’s a shame. We are disparate in our musical tastes even though there is lots of common ground. I do think when we collectively write something, it definitely sounds like us.

Paul Wray: I have always said that it is not a Puppet Cell song until all five people have done their thing on it.

Rob Sutton: A lot of things have happened to us during this time. It’s a friendship. It’s a kinship. It has been a musical progression. You can look back over the years and see the chapters in there. We’re talking about this as if it has gone. How long does it take between Tool albums? Never say never. I will be like a junkie chasing a high, wanting to make music as good as these two albums have been for me. Everything’s been worth it.

Andy Deans: Knowing we did this collectively and this is how it sounds is a privilege.

Rob Sutton: I have never managed to lock in with another drummer the way I lock in with Paul when we play live. It's a friendship and I don't see it stopping just because we're not recording currently.

Paul Owen: Same for me. I am immensely proud of everything that we’ve produced since I have been in the band. It's been a privilege to be in the band, frankly. My only regret from post-lockdown is that we haven’t got together in a room more frequently. I think the important thing from my perspective is that we go out on a high. I think we've achieved that from a personal perspective. It's been a great opportunity to gain experience and hone production skills and that's been a huge learning curve since the first single that I produced. It's not a friendship that's going to end just because the band isn't playing in the same room. Friends for life.

Hotel Hobbies: With the Tool thing in mind Rob, I will book in an interview for 2035 just in case.

Rob Sutton: (laughing) It’s already in the diary!

Hotel Hobbies: Thank you all so much for your time and the chance to hear the album in advance.

Rob Sutton: Thank you very much for yours.

Paul Owen: And thank you for your support as well. It's massively appreciated.

Hotel Hobbies: Thanks everyone. Take care and good luck with the album.